Comments on: Standing up for what’s right. http://rambles.bearcircle.net/2009/04/22/standing-up-for-whats-right/ Programming, Poker, and Politics. Just Another voice in the electronic wilderness Sun, 27 Mar 2011 01:36:36 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Lance http://rambles.bearcircle.net/2009/04/22/standing-up-for-whats-right/comment-page-1/#comment-69 Lance Wed, 22 Apr 2009 18:46:01 +0000 http://rambles.bearcircle.net/2009/04/22/standing-up-for-whats-right/#comment-69 There's the rub. I haven't seen anything that indicates waterboading these people generated any useful intelligence. I _have_ seen strong evidence that waterboarding KSM generated false information that screwed up the prosecution of people in Pakistan who did do heinous things. I don't buy the argument that because they are fighting outside the rules of war, that we should. That's equivalent to the old "Would you jump off a building just because Jimmy is doing it?" argument. Some things are wrong and shouldn't be done. The U.S. prosecuted Japanese military for torturing U.S. prisoners of war and has even prosecuted a U.S. citizen for torture (a local-level law enforcement officer). For us to turn around and use the same techniques in heinous and should be prosecuted. I do believe we are in violent agreemnt here. :-) There’s the rub. I haven’t seen anything that indicates waterboading these people generated any useful intelligence. I _have_ seen strong evidence that waterboarding KSM generated false information that screwed up the prosecution of people in Pakistan who did do heinous things.
I don’t buy the argument that because they are fighting outside the rules of war, that we should. That’s equivalent to the old “Would you jump off a building just because Jimmy is doing it?” argument. Some things are wrong and shouldn’t be done. The U.S. prosecuted Japanese military for torturing U.S. prisoners of war and has even prosecuted a U.S. citizen for torture (a local-level law enforcement officer). For us to turn around and use the same techniques in heinous and should be prosecuted.

I do believe we are in violent agreemnt here. :-)

]]> By: Bill Baar http://rambles.bearcircle.net/2009/04/22/standing-up-for-whats-right/comment-page-1/#comment-68 Bill Baar Wed, 22 Apr 2009 18:38:46 +0000 http://rambles.bearcircle.net/2009/04/22/standing-up-for-whats-right/#comment-68 We need the administration to release the stuff that was redacted in the memos on the results of the interrogations. The issue is given the capture of a combatant fighting outside the rules of war (the Geneva Conventions--in which case all that could be asked is name, rank, and serial number) than what are the rules for coercing information out of them. They're not criminals. They're combatants at war with the United States and fighting beyond the rules of warfare. So were is the boundary between coercion and torture? The Administration attempted to define that witness the memos and opinions. Congress was briefed at the time and concurred with the methods. I find waterboarding acceptable especially if it holds the promise of being effective on extracting intel on future assaults. Obama needs to release the documents explaining the results which they continue to redact out. That's wrong... We need the administration to release the stuff that was redacted in the memos on the results of the interrogations.

The issue is given the capture of a combatant fighting outside the rules of war (the Geneva Conventions–in which case all that could be asked is name, rank, and serial number) than what are the rules for coercing information out of them. They’re not criminals. They’re combatants at war with the United States and fighting beyond the rules of warfare.

So were is the boundary between coercion and torture? The Administration attempted to define that witness the memos and opinions. Congress was briefed at the time and concurred with the methods.

I find waterboarding acceptable especially if it holds the promise of being effective on extracting intel on future assaults.

Obama needs to release the documents explaining the results which they continue to redact out. That’s wrong…

]]> By: Lance http://rambles.bearcircle.net/2009/04/22/standing-up-for-whats-right/comment-page-1/#comment-67 Lance Wed, 22 Apr 2009 16:13:56 +0000 http://rambles.bearcircle.net/2009/04/22/standing-up-for-whats-right/#comment-67 "Waterboarding seems to have helped keep us free from another terror attack". Really? I wouldn't be so sure of that. c.f. http://scienceblogs.com/dispatches/2009/04/lies_about_torture.php “Waterboarding seems to have helped keep us free from another terror attack”. Really? I wouldn’t be so sure of that. c.f. http://scienceblogs.com/dispatches/2009/04/lies_about_torture.php

]]> By: Bill Baar http://rambles.bearcircle.net/2009/04/22/standing-up-for-whats-right/comment-page-1/#comment-66 Bill Baar Wed, 22 Apr 2009 15:54:10 +0000 http://rambles.bearcircle.net/2009/04/22/standing-up-for-whats-right/#comment-66 Waterboarding seems to have helped keep us free from another terror attack... lets see what happens to that sorry state of things after Obama. Then watch Obama retaliate with some pretty extreme vengeance for having looked the appeaser. A real sorry state on the horizon I fear. Waterboarding seems to have helped keep us free from another terror attack… lets see what happens to that sorry state of things after Obama. Then watch Obama retaliate with some pretty extreme vengeance for having looked the appeaser.

A real sorry state on the horizon I fear.

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